Keith Olbermann...

I don't really watch too much primetime news. But I'm going to start. This guy has balls. I'm posting his 9/11 address from ground zero in it's entirety. Please read it. It's from the heart and says what many of us are thinking.



This hole in the ground

Half a lifetime ago, I worked in this now-empty space. And for 40 days after the attacks, I worked here again, trying to make sense of what happened, and was yet to happen, as a reporter.

All the time, I knew that the very air I breathed contained the remains of thousands of people, including four of my friends, two in the planes and -- as I discovered from those "missing posters" seared still into my soul -- two more in the Towers.

And I knew too, that this was the pyre for hundreds of New York policemen and firemen, of whom my family can claim half a dozen or more, as our ancestors.

I belabor this to emphasize that, for me this was, and is, and always shall be, personal.

And anyone who claims that I and others like me are "soft,"or have "forgotten" the lessons of what happened here is at best a grasping, opportunistic, dilettante and at worst, an idiot whether he is a commentator, or a Vice President, or a President.

However, of all the things those of us who were here five years ago could have forecast -- of all the nightmares that unfolded before our eyes, and the others that unfolded only in our minds -- none of us could have predicted this.

Five years later this space is still empty.

Five years later there is no memorial to the dead.

Five years later there is no building rising to show with proud defiance that we would not have our America wrung from us, by cowards and criminals.

Five years later this country's wound is still open.

Five years later this country's mass grave is still unmarked.

Five years later this is still just a background for a photo-op.

It is beyond shameful.

At the dedication of the Gettysburg Memorial -- barely four months after the last soldier staggered from another Pennsylvania field -- Mr. Lincoln said, "we cannot dedicate, we cannot consecrate, we cannot hallow this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract."

Lincoln used those words to immortalize their sacrifice.

Today our leaders could use those same words to rationalize their reprehensible inaction. "We cannot dedicate, we can not consecrate, we can not hallow this ground." So we won't.

Instead they bicker and buck pass. They thwart private efforts, and jostle to claim credit for initiatives that go nowhere. They spend the money on irrelevant wars, and elaborate self-congratulations, and buying off columnists to write how good a job they're doing instead of doing any job at all.

Five years later, Mr. Bush, we are still fighting the terrorists on these streets. And look carefully, sir, on these 16 empty acres. The terrorists are clearly, still winning.

And, in a crime against every victim here and every patriotic sentiment you mouthed but did not enact, you have done nothing about it.

And there is something worse still than this vast gaping hole in this city, and in the fabric of our nation. There is its symbolism of the promise unfulfilled, the urgent oath, reduced to lazy execution.

The only positive on 9/11 and the days and weeks that so slowly and painfully followed it was the unanimous humanity, here, and throughout the country. The government, the President in particular, was given every possible measure of support.

Those who did not belong to his party -- tabled that.

Those who doubted the mechanics of his election -- ignored that.

Those who wondered of his qualifications -- forgot that.

History teaches us that nearly unanimous support of a government cannot be taken away from that government by its critics. It can only be squandered by those who use it not to heal a nation's wounds, but to take political advantage.

Terrorists did not come and steal our newly-regained sense of being American first, and political, fiftieth. Nor did the Democrats. Nor did the media. Nor did the people.

The President -- and those around him -- did that.

They promised bi-partisanship, and then showed that to them, "bi-partisanship" meant that their party would rule and the rest would have to follow, or be branded, with ever-escalating hysteria, as morally or intellectually confused, as appeasers, as those who, in the Vice President's words yesterday, "validate the strategy of the terrorists."

They promised protection, and then showed that to them "protection" meant going to war against a despot whose hand they had once shaken, a despot who we now learn from our own Senate Intelligence Committee, hated al-Qaida as much as we did.

The polite phrase for how so many of us were duped into supporting a war, on the false premise that it had 'something to do' with 9/11 is "lying by implication."

The impolite phrase is "impeachable offense."

Not once in now five years has this President ever offered to assume responsibility for the failures that led to this empty space, and to this, the current, curdled, version of our beloved country.

Still, there is a last snapping flame from a final candle of respect and fairness: even his most virulent critics have never suggested he alone bears the full brunt of the blame for 9/11.

Half the time, in fact, this President has been so gently treated, that he has seemed not even to be the man most responsible for anything in his own administration.

Yet what is happening this very night?

A mini-series, created, influenced -- possibly financed by -- the most radical and cold of domestic political Machiavellis, continues to be televised into our homes.

The documented truths of the last fifteen years are replaced by bald-faced lies; the talking points of the current regime parroted; the whole sorry story blurred, by spin, to make the party out of office seem vacillating and impotent, and the party in office, seem like the only option.

How dare you, Mr. President, after taking cynical advantage of the unanimity and love, and transmuting it into fraudulent war and needless death, after monstrously transforming it into fear and suspicion and turning that fear into the campaign slogan of three elections? How dare you -- or those around you -- ever "spin" 9/11?

Just as the terrorists have succeeded -- are still succeeding -- as long as there is no memorial and no construction here at Ground Zero.

So, too, have they succeeded, and are still succeeding as long as this government uses 9/11 as a wedge to pit Americans against Americans.

This is an odd point to cite a television program, especially one from March of 1960. But as Disney's continuing sell-out of the truth (and this country) suggests, even television programs can be powerful things.

And long ago, a series called "The Twilight Zone" broadcast a riveting episode entitled "The Monsters Are Due On Maple Street."

In brief: a meteor sparks rumors of an invasion by extra-terrestrials disguised as humans. The electricity goes out. A neighbor pleads for calm. Suddenly his car -- and only his car -- starts. Someone suggests he must be the alien. Then another man's lights go on. As charges and suspicion and panic overtake the street, guns are inevitably produced. An "alien" is shot -- but he turns out to be just another neighbor, returning from going for help. The camera pulls back to a near-by hill, where two extra-terrestrials are seen manipulating a small device that can jam electricity. The veteran tells his novice that there's no need to actually attack, that you just turn off a few of the human machines and then, "they pick the most dangerous enemy they can find, and it's themselves."

And then, in perhaps his finest piece of writing, Rod Serling sums it up with words of remarkable prescience, given where we find ourselves tonight: "The tools of conquest do not necessarily come with bombs and explosions and fallout. There are weapons that are simply thoughts, attitudes, prejudices, to be found only in the minds of men.

"For the record, prejudices can kill and suspicion can destroy, and a thoughtless, frightened search for a scapegoat has a fallout all its own -- for the children, and the children yet unborn."

When those who dissent are told time and time again -- as we will be, if not tonight by the President, then tomorrow by his portable public chorus -- that he is preserving our freedom, but that if we use any of it, we are somehow un-American...When we are scolded, that if we merely question, we have "forgotten the lessons of 9/11"... look into this empty space behind me and the bi-partisanship upon which this administration also did not build, and tell me:

Who has left this hole in the ground?

We have not forgotten, Mr. President.

You have.

May this country forgive you.

Keith's Blog - Bloggerman

This is a very well written piece. Thanks for posting it.

What a missed opportunity to frustrate anti-American sentiment. If I had the say, I would have rebuilt the original towers exactly as they were.

Though Bush's job isn't NYC civic planning, he could have encouraged action - he should have seen this coming up. But nope, blindsided again.

Instead, it appears that the terrorists have used our own government to happily drive a wedge between neighbors in our country.

It is my opinion that the current administration's position and rhetoric has served nothing other than to prove that terrorism was successful at it's intention. Obviousely Bush is terrified. I'm terrified of Bush.

Well said.

olberman article very good...

we suck so fuckin' bad for letting terrorists attack from within and without.

GOD, WE FUCKIN' SUK!

the idiot Bush is a poster boy for parliamentary democracy. and that sux cuz representative republic is such a better way, but we dont have the ability anymore to progress. so we nihilate into the dead Euro-way becuz of this mistake.

'no-confidence' vote is needed and necessary now for our country cuz we let it get here...

republicans and democrats suck ass...

vote democrat and smoke 'em if u got 'em.

If I had the say, I would have rebuilt the original towers exactly as they were.

bounty hunter "dog" arrested for the same shit the Bushies do nonstop. he went into another country to get a criminal. nice of the US marshalls doing the bidding of the Mexican govt. i guess US marshalls really means AMERICAN marshalls.

pretty soon, we gonna start calling the world trade tower site, "the big empty hole", and NAGIN can say "i told ya so..."

WTF r u talking about? ^^^
Your posts are growing more incoherent by the day!

sorry, the "dog" stuff was a post at another site. got put in accidentally w/ cut-n-paste.
just meant to put the thing about the WTC/big empty hole/Nagin.

lolz

I was nodding right along. LOL

"Well of course, bounty hunter "dog" arrested for the same shit the Bushies do nonstop, I mean, that's just a given!"

well, yeah; but i didnt mean to put it here.
tho now i see how it almost makes sense if i were slightly less(more?) coherent...
lol

YOU GENTLEMEN ARE ACTING LIKE CRAZY PEOPLE! YOU'RE CRAZY!

Sorry... shouting was uncalled for. It is obvious that I am acting like a crazy person.

PH34R THE ANGRY KITTY! MWAHAHAHAHAA!!!

I really don't know who keeps posting that shit. He must be crazy!

how many personalities is that?
at least 2(3?) ?...?...?

countdown = 21 days til 'dega'

how many personalities is that?
at least 2(3?) ?...?...?

countdown = 21 days til 'dega'

yet another example of the difference between Muslims and the rest of us, the Pope made a statement that Muslims disliked, so they shoot a nun in the back four times in response. NOt only did they shoot and kill her, but they did it at the hopital in Somalia where she worked to help mostly Muslims.......They should be exterminated like rabid dogs.

Dude, you are using "they" as if every fucking Muslim in the world lined up and pulled the trigger. Certainly it's tragic and barbaric. But "they" is most likely 1 - 4 armed idiots. It's not as if they held a meeting, and decided to order a hit on a nun. In this country, we don't arrest an entire faith just because a couple of (or even more) of that faith are idiots.
Bush is in "cover thine own ass" mode and I don't think it'll fly. We have to quit this chicken little shit and start to understand the mistakes we have made and start mending fences we have broken. It is essential to our survival.

They should be exterminated like rabid dogs.

I'm sorry you disagree, but I have arrived at a "pitbull" mentality over this shit....and it has nothing to do with bush. I say this with the preface that a very close friend of my family is a Islamic citizen of an Islamic country...He was Foriegn minister of Turkey as a matter of fact...Mehmet Kaya. By "pitbull" I mean that though not all pitbulls bite children, when they do...they most often kill them... as a result I believe that pitbulls should be categorized as "exotic" such as tigers, lions, etc. Muslims are that way to me because they react by killing innocent people.....and though not all Muslims do it, you can't tell me which ones will, or won't. And, as long as that's the case......they should be dealt with accordingly...like snakes, or rabid dogs, or pitbulls.

You are so panicked, you are ready to dehumanize ONE BILLION EIGHT HUNDRED THOUSAND people simply because they do not attend your church.

You are free to be a freak-ass extremist - every bit as dangerous and toxic to America as any suicide bomber.

I remain unfrightened by either of you.

You are just ignoramous...you make that statement about me, while THEY make these statements....and, then act like I the idiot for not ignoring them...you're blind, and YOU are the sheep. No, they're not blowing up women and children all over the world EVERY SINGLE DAY...it's me that's doing it..there's not a synonym for stupid strong enough to describe you.



CAIRO, Egypt — Al Qaeda in Iraq warned Pope Benedict XVI on Monday that its war against Christianity and the West will go on until Islam takes over the world, and Iran's supreme leader called for more protests over the pontiff's remarks on Islam.

"You infidels and despots, we will continue our jihad (holy war) and never stop until God avails us to chop your necks and raise the fluttering banner of monotheism, when God's rule is established governing all people and nations," said the statement by the Mujahedeen Shura Council

Ansar al-Sunna, challenged "sleeping Muslims" to prove their manhood by doing something other than "issuing statements or holding demonstrations."

"If the stupid pig is prancing with his blasphemies in his house," the group said in a Web statement, referring to the pope, "then let him wait for the day coming soon when the armies of the religion of right knock on the walls of Rome."

In Iran, supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei used the comments to call for protests against the United States. He argued that while the pope may have been deceived into making his remarks, the words give the West an "excuse for suppressing Muslims"

Fuck Yeah ... Good Hardcore Political Rap!

caution may be offensive, not work safe ... but full of the rage that makes socially motivated music rock! Check yourself Naggas'

yeah, yeah, I know America is Evil....blah...blah..blah.

You'll never find any post I have made that makes any connection between my feelings on Islamo-fascists, and MY religeous beliefs..... Any comment I make with regard to the afore mentioned shitbags - which might contain any mention of religion - is made directly in reference to THEIR religeous motives, and how they relate to why the afore mentioned shitbags want me - and everyone else that isn't muslim - dead. The Pope - and I'm no fan of the vatican - makes a remark, and they start shooting nuns, calling for jihad escalation, and burning shit in the streets of the world. And yet, phayyde is still able minimize the importance of these events - an act of sheer stupidity I thought outside the capabilities of any but Dorch. My brother lived just down the street from the largest mosque in this country (Princeton, NJ), and personally witnessed the shitbag muslims dancing in the street when the towers fell. The smoke, and dust, and the mist of vaporized Americans floating in the air, and those fucks danced in the street. But, according to phayyde, it was just a couple of stewardesses. I honestly believe in the importance of political diversity, but minimizing the deaths of 3,000 INNOCENT Americans as some insignificant event that has been blown out of proportion is not only insanely ignorant, but absolutely offensive in a manner worthy of only the most rabid, anti-American, vomitous coward. Further, as far as I'm concerned, phayyde is no better than richard reed or timothy mcVeigh. He just doesn't have the balls to do anything, but blab anonymously on this little echo chamber. But, that's just my opinion.

Keith Olbermann might be interested that planning for the WTC began in the late `50s, architecture and design in 1962, and construction in 1966...ending in 1973. So, the original project developed over roughly 15 years.....I'd cut them some slack.

Free Willie! Still partying at age 73, More power to ya Willie!

Country icon Willie Nelson (and four others he was traveling with) was issued misdemeanor citations for the possession of illegal mushrooms and marijuana following a traffic stop on a Louisiana highway on Monday.

The release stated a state trooper was speaking with the driver and began to smell “the strong odor of marijuana." The bus was then searched and 1 1/2 pounds of marijuana and slightly more than three ounces of illegal mushrooms were discovered. Nelson and the others were able to avoid a felony charge of distribution since he and the other four passengers claimed the drugs and the drugs were not packaged for resale.

Nelson and the others were released following the issue of the citations. Others cited include Tony Sizemore, 59, of St. Cloud, Fla.; Bobbie Nelson, 75, of Briarcliff, Texas; Gates Moore, 54, of Austin, Texas; and David Anderson, 50, of Dallas.

http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/LegalCenter/wireStory?id=2461501

hehe....that guy.....god bless him =)

How does he make it seem like a fun loving event, while Glen Campbell just seems like an idiot for gettin busted drunk...hmmm.

Have any of you noticed the irony of Islamic calls for death for the crime of saying Islam calls for death a little too often.

But beyond that, as The Times of London pointed out today, the "sword verse" is in the Koran, and it appears to be the very instruction on which Usama bin Laden and other Wahhabists base their belief that conversion to Islam is quickest when it comes on the blade of a sharpened sword.

Willie Nelson rocks, and if he's still smoking grass and tripping and making reggae albums at age 73 - then fuck yeah! Go Willie!
It's amazing though, very lucky ... if I got stopped in Louisiana with 5 or 6 people and they found 1.5 POUNDS of weed and 3 oz of mushrooms(!) ... we would be going to prison, no doubt about it.
A citation? That's a lucky break - Damn Willie, be more careful next time!
I'd hate to see the old guy end up in jail for living the lifestyle he enjoys.

I agree the Wahabbists and Islamists are thoroughly fuck't. I feel powerless to help. It's frustrating.

I try to keep the door open, my mind open, the conversation open. And then they go and do this shit - it doesn't seem to matter which fly lands in their ointment - today it's the fucking Pope, yesterday it was a cartoon, the day before that it was the Miss Universe Pageant, and before that a million other TRIVIAL things.

Also, in no way did I minimize the atrocity of 9/11. I can see where you got that impression though. I referred to the prolonged US kneejerk which proceeded from the effects of hijackers killing stewardesses.

My point was that the US is stronger than that. We are a big ship. It takes much more than that to change our culture, our way of life. Unless we happen to be led by fear-mongers. In which case, our culture is pretty easily affected from outside. With a stiffer upper lip, we don't have to be so weak and sensitive.

Americans seem to have lost their tolerance for risk and danger. Today's fear culture would never have settled this continent.

The people who settled this continent would have wiped every living, breathing muslim off the map...and would have done it without blinking, feeling sorry for them, or worrying about world opinion. And, then they would have had dinner, and a good nights sleep.

That's jumping the shark bro. LOL

To believe that the settlers would have turned around, travelled back to the East coast, jumped on a boat, sailed over to the middle east and began a new genocidal Crusade against Islam is utterly crazy and seems to reveal a childishly simplistic view of our forefathers.

But if you're just being hyperbolic, then I get your point and counter that the settlers had no time for your religious wars. They believed in Freedom, Liberty and the empowerment of the individual.

I was neither being hyperbolic, nor literal. I was speaking of the overall philosophy and character of the men and women who settled this continent. Does the term "Frontier Justice" mean anything to you? Stealing a horse was a hanging offense, and sentence was carried out post-haste. Insulting ones character would often find you at the end of a dueling pistol. Infact, it wasn't until well into the 20th century that we adopted the protracted, indecisive attitude we have today. We believed in "Live and Let Live", but you didn't want to fuck with those guys, cuz they would most assuredly fuck with you back.

This is NOT MY religious war, I couldn't give a rat's ass who those rag-heads pray to. However, they wish to impose their oppressive, fractured, psycopathic religion on the rest of the world, and that happens to include me and mine. As far as I'm concerned, Muḥammad needs a whole lot of company...where ever he is.

I would agree, if it were possible to magically lump all Muslims together like that.

We are both Xians. Look how diverse our opinions are.

Remember that self-acclaimed Xian lady who drowned her children to save them from Satan? Should we pay for her crime?

"How does he make it seem like a fun loving event, while Glen Campbell just seems like an idiot for gettin busted drunk...hmmm. "

he does it cuz we all know that alcohol is wayyy greater evil than marijuana and 'shrooms. it's just that big business propaganda is too powerful to overcome.

the Xian lady that drowned her kids is not valuable and shouldve just been "flushed" away.
she shouldve had to pay, but she got the insanity BS excuse, right?

america is definitely wussified. we should deal much more harshly w/ groups that oppose us. but since we aren't "WE", we can't.

no doubt that the forefathers(Xians) wiped indians out w/ the ferocity that Xians should be wiping out the islamoShit world. it may not have been "right", but it assured the survival of the ones that were important; US.

i wonder if the forefathers understood how weak we would become when the modern corrupt leaders have figured out how to abuse the "50/50 split". our country's powerful have got us at 50/50 and go either way anytime it suits them. very, very bad for us...

th age old q...
what would jesus do?

WATER-BOARD!

haha

But, that's the beauty, we don't have to lump them together.....they're doing it for us. They have every oppotunity to seperate themselves from the shitbags conducting this
"jihad". Some of them have, but not many. They allow the shitbags to hide amongst them, they celebrate their atrocities, so as far as I'm concerned they're just as guilty as the bombers...even if they don't physically light the fuse.

I didn't lift a finger to stop that lady from drowning her kids. It's as if we killed them with our own four hands!

Are you going to turn yourself in? Yeah. Me neither.

I had no knowledge of her intent to do so...Did you? If so, you are, infact, as guilty as her...morally and legally.

I think the actual legal terms are:

Aiding and Abetting
Accessory (before and after the fact)

A person charged with aiding and abetting or accessory is usually not present when the crime itself is committed, but he or she has knowledge of the crime before or after the fact, and may assist in its commission through advice, actions, or financial support. Depending on the degree of involvement, the offender's participation in the crime may rise to the level of conspiracy.

For example, Andy draws a floor plan of a bank, knowing of Dan's intention to rob it. After Dan commits the robbery, Alice agrees to let him store the stolen money at her house. Both Andy and Alice can be charged with aiding and abetting, or acting as accessories to the robbery

if as many women were drowning their kids in the US as islamoFvks are blowing us up, i'd be for doing something "different from the norm" about child/women relationships too.

damn skippy

So Django, do you believe all Muslims are privy to some sort of telepathic link whereby they share terror logistics (and therefore, legal responsibility)? If yes, then genocide is justified by your logic.

If no, then you have just outed yourself as a reasonless genocidal religious zealot.

So, either way I'm genocidal...eh?

I think a more accurate statement would be that I am no longer willing to allow the monkeys to throw shit from the cover of the jungle canopy...and just stand around shit-covered because ALL the monkeys have their hands over their ears, eyes, and mouth.

Of course, we can just be reactionary (like we were through out the `90s), and wait for shit to blow up before we scour the earth to incarcerate a few lackys while the real shitbags plan the next attack.

Also, I think a more appropo analogy to this situation than the ones you've put forth would be the Germans living all around the Nazi death camps that claimed they had "nooo iideeaa...what was going on in there". They didn't get the kid-glove treatment either.

Oh, again, I wouldn't care if they were Baptist....if all the sudden they wanted to blow me up. Funny thing is, I got a feeling that if it were Baptists behind it, you wouldn't be soo sympathetic.

And, now we have Danny Glover freakin dancing with Chavez...what kinda shit is that...no more Glover movies for me

LOL. Chavez is a silly person. Glover is an actor. Too bad you feel threatened.

Wall yourself off until you are safe, my friend. Here's a brick on me. :)

For real! And though Chavez may be (is) a raging lunatic, he's totally helping the underpriveleged with resources that American companies could be, but are far too greedy to let go of. I'm quite sure that those people would happily tell Hugo to fuck himself if they thought they were going to get the support they'd get from him, from they're own. If he want's to give it away, let him. And if Danny Glover wants to dance with him, let him. What harm can come? We all know how those hollywod types are. Lolz!

ya, glover is a piece of shit, but he did four movies as partner w/ Mel Gibson so i dont think this is too unbelievable. 200+ gallons heating oil per family for 400k+ families. those people need it so i'm glad they got it thru a donation rather than another tax.
i repeat...
ya, glover is a piece of shit! (hollywood type, ya know, haha)

It's a PR stunt. Just look at how Home Depot does business.....give shit away(relatively) until compitition is gone, and then do what they want...same thing here...."give" shit away as a PR stunt...but be the largest reason that OPEC has steadily increased the price per gallon of oil in the first place. Venezuela's vote in OPEC has been the strongest on the slow down of oil production. This is no "gift" what he's charging is what it would have cost if he hadn't constantly lobbied for the increased cost of oil. Mark it up to put it on sale. I'm not threatened by idiot Danny Glover....I - unlike you - take offense at seditious, subversive acts such as this. And, I hope the church that allowed Chavez to rant about the President loses its tax exempt status for being involved in politics.

but glover is not seditious and only pseudo-subversive soooo that's pretty punk, dont u think? and we know that churches are viable semi-political groups w/ protection just like the political parties are. all are organizations(cults?) that use political pressure and more to get what they want(DEMS and REPS; good churches and bad ones too)...

if mel gibson and danny glover showed up at my pawn shop we'd have to take em downstairs and turn the gimp loose on them...

Zackly. Also it doesn't bother me that Djang will miss Glover's films. I haven't seen one since, damn, the Royal Tennenbaums or something.

I think Glover was in Saw. Saw was a groundbreaker. I still need to see that. Wonder when or if I'll find the time. Despite the critical raves, I don't really care to watch a movie about people getting torn up like that. Just no curiosity for that.

The Descent is different though. Spelunking Girls Gone Bad! LOL

Also - LOLMFAOROMGROFL or somesuch appropriate laughter for Django's "sedition-watch list". It's perhaps the very stupidest shit I have EVER heard.

Djang, you need to start a sedition-watch website. Lucky for you, "seditionwatch.com" is totally available! Move fast! LOLMGROFL

Might do it.....I'm just glad that there are still people who take things like ohhh....espionage, subversive activities, and the like seriously......ALL our shit would be blown up if phayyde was responsible for doing ANYTHING what-so-ever...."hey man...everything's oky-doky.....let's just hang out and dig liberal shit....maybe protest something...awww daaammnn man, I'm out of patchouli oil...like...far out man".

hahahaha...yeah...he's a fuckin hippie arright :D
I just don't see Hugo as much more that a lunatic. When he starts enriching uranium, I'll start sweatin.
I have been a proponant of invading Iran for a long time. Hell for I care, we can turn their facilities to rubble. They, along with Pakistan and N. Korea are a real threat. If there is to be REAL danger, it comes from them. And I feel it will. But, where are our current efforts getting us in terms of those issues?

not very far along that 'smart list' of US enemies. tee time for Iran is getting pretty close i think. chavez doesnt get 15 mins very often so he's milking it.

phaydde is a hippie! i knew it all along...
cartman hates u too.

we've had 100k+ troops next to Iran for 3 yrs. but there we sit impotently tending the Iraqi civil war. we couldve been to the border of india by now and only N.Korea would be left on that list.

Ya, Chavez is no REAL threat...never thought he was, he and his little "posse" are just gettin under my skin at the moment. I don't see N. Korea as a real threat either, because China - in it's new found economic fruitfulness (which depends heavily on us)won't allow N. Korea to fuck it up for them. Iran, Syria, Lebanon, and any number of NW African Nations on the otherhand ARE a real threat because there is no government in the world that can curb their Islamic psychosis....if they get a notion to infect themselves with some airborne agent ...ebola, hanta, smallpox...etc., and cross either our Northern or Southern border - they'll do it without so much as a second thought.

Dude, the human rights atrocities alone are reason to be concerned w/N. Korea. And Pakistan is only stable at the moment. That could change any time.

China takes the internet seriously. Look at your log files, if you have them.

We are fucking it up. Bigtime. Every single time a US politician opens his or her mouth about the net, I cringe. They so don't get it.

ya, pakistan is more dangerous than all of those combined. they actually have many modernly educated people and many uneducated islamists. add lots of nukes to that mix and it's Danger Central in ISLAMA-BAD...

Ya, I left Paki. off my list accidentally.....definately a shithole.

Clinton talking on Meet the Press...

paraphrasing what he said:
we don't want sweeping torture laws cuz it rarely works, is immoral, etc.; but we know what we need to do in the threat of eminent danger (knowing look that we would do whatever when the time comes).

politicians are so much smarter when they arent in office or running for it.

politicians are so much smarter when they arent in office or running for it.

Fuck "smarter". The people obviously didn't want "smarter".

We voted dumb cuz dumb fuckin' ROCKS! We started a fistfulla unwinnable wars, emptied our surpluses, went into the biggest debt in history, created a new terror state, killed off 2600+ of our best. Beat that, Clinton.

Fuck yeh. In ya face Dems! "Dumb Accomplished".

if we're lucky, the Dems will win the House(enforce gridlock and subpoenas like a good congress should) in a couple months; then if our luck holds out, we get Edwards vs McCain in '08.
the ole US may make it yet...

Hehe...man, you guys sure like to ignore facts for the sake of making a point...lol.

A.) Clinton didn't clean up welfare...congress did...1996...Newt. Infact, Clinton threatened to vito the bill, but realized that congress had the numbers to override.
B.)Clinton deployed US troops 3...yes 3 times more than all the other presidents in US history (including W) combined. I know because I was one of them. Infact, he did it...while cutting the military budget in half, and cutting troop numbers by almost 2/3, all of which resulted in 4 billion dollars in deficit on equipment and facilities maintenance, as well as 2 billion dollars in deficit on personnel training. He is the primary reason that I, and about 1 million active duty troops left the service...He actually had to create an executive order prohiting us from making "bad" remarks about him and his wife. We see the results of his MASSIVE personnel drawdown in the number of troops available today. Also, roughly half the US bases were closed under his admin. When I went in, there were eleven B-52 bases, and about 450 planes. When I left active duty (4 yrs and 4 "wars" later, there were two B-52 bases and about 75 planes.
C.)The choice in 2000 wasn't between Clinton and Bush, it was between Bush and GORE....and GORE couldn't pick his nose without fucking help.

I also find it amusing that you "civil liberties" folks like Clinton so much since he all but took the constitution off the table....lol

Ruby Ridge - Janet Reno's posse layed siege to an American citizens home (on trumped up, and later dismissed charges). Shot and killed a 14 year old boy - in the back as he fled from the unidentified federal agents that had just shot and killed his dog. Shot Randy Weaver as he Carried his son's body to the shed behind the house. Shot and killed his wife as she stood in the kitchen door holding their infant son. Spent days blasting monologues about her rotting corpes over loudspeakers.

Waco, Tx. - Yes, they were nuts, but the FBI had MANY opportunities to arrest David Koresh outside of the compound...but opted to wait until they could storm in, and capture the "cache" of illegal weapons....we know the results.

Elian Gonzalez - Picture of an FBI agent holding an MP-5 (assault weapon) on a terrified 12 year old boy....enough said.

I agree those were tragic. The whole Elian thing was just stupid and embarrassing for the US, and tragic for that boy. I'd sure like to see a picture of him today. LOL

And Clinton sure did pare down the military. As I see it, it is an ongoing question of scale. What is the optimal size for our US military forces? There is no single fixed answer because the world political climate is always changing. Clinton scaled back and I believe that was appropriate for the time and (despite some fuckedup incidents) there were no major troop losses.

In fact, when I graduated college and headed out West to seek my fortune, my first stop was Los Alamos Labs. I had a buddy there who said they were offering 60K jobs to fresh graduates, and I was gone. Bill Clinton beat me to LANL by one week and he slashed their budgets so hard that career engineers were getting laid off. 20 year LANL guys, jobless. Fuck.

By the time I arrived at LANL HR, they were in panic mode trying to re-hire/re-position all the RIF'd guys. They didn't give a SHIT about no fresh grads no more. LOL The job descriptions had all changed from "must have degree, must be breathing, must have pulse" to "must have 19 years experience operating the Heil Corp. Multiphasic Scanning Isotope Array, must have daughter by the name of Bridgette who works in Archival, must have tattoo on left bicep and answer to the name 'Bob'"

In a way, Clinton changed my career. I wouldn't be here without him.

I don't feel so bad about Gore. So he talks like a girl sometimes. LOL So what?

His support of funds and stumping for the cooperation between DARPA/Universities and Big Telco/Corporations helped build this internet. We would not be here without the feds okay-ing and helping fund the opening up of the net. The man who brought that to Congress was Gore.

He started lobbying for the public internet in 1976. And look what it's given society. Look what we're reading and typing on now.

Credit where due, man, that's vision. I'm not saying he'd be the best President ever. But the man has vision and he phrases it well and he follows through.

Sigh, I like talking about them good old days. Such better times.

Oh, you think that he paired down the military appropriately eh?.....Jeez, I think having the highest ops tempo in the history of the country would... oh ...I don't know...not involve cutting the military down to a third of it's pre-clinton size. Further, it was the slimey way he did it. The military budget is done every 6 years. It was done in `93 (right after Clinton took office). The Joint Chiefs proposed their budget of twelve billion dollars - above fixed costs...current payroll, retirees, leases..etc. Clinton agreed to the budget (to avoid taking the Dem. military killer tag), but proposed to pay only one billion the first year and prorate the other billion over the remaining five years of the budget. Which, was fine, except he did the same thing each of the remaining five years. The result was the budget was six billion under what the military had requested and "recieved".
Compounding the problem was the unbudgeted deployments to Bosnia, Herzegovina, Kosovo, Haiti, Somalia, Mogadishu and other more covert ops like Columbia, Bolivia, and other "war on drugs" countries. All of these were financed via ongoing research and development monies like the V-22 Osprey (intended to replace the Marine's and ARMY's almost 50 year old Chinook helicopters). The V-22 was subsequently forced into limited production half developed, and eventually cancelled as a result of accidents. So, the Marines and ARMY chiefly deploy onboard 50 year old Helicopters, for which, replacement parts are no longer even made. Each of the 4 years I served in active duty under Clinton, our planes were forced to stop flying as many as 2 months before the end of the fiscal year as we ran out of fuel and money to buy it. We had aircraft sitting on the flight line unable to fly because we couldn't buy replacement parts, and we had personnel bailing right and left to get out from under that bullshit. When I left active duty, my GI bill was worth 16k dollars, 1 week after Bush took office, he pushed for and had it upped to right at 40k. Now, I realize that many men coming home from WWII went to college with the GI bill, but you tell me, which college can you graduate from for 16k? Oh, I had to pay 1.2k into the program to begin with. The whole Al Gore"internet thing" has been thoroughly debunct at this point. He (and others) rode the tide of an entity - the internet - that had been under development, and infact, in use by the D.O.D. for years. Al Gore has never had an idea that didn't come off a teleprompter...which by-the-way, is why Clinton didn't..and...doesn't like him. Clinton is WAYYY too smart to be enjoy the likes of that dumbass. If I were on trial for murder, I would definately want clinton as my attorney.

Vint Cerf and Bob Kahn disagree with you. You understand that I give their opinion more weight than yours.

How exactly do they disagree with me? Neither of them have ever said that Al Gore was instrumental in the development of the internet. And, as far as theat goes, the snupercomputer project, ARPAnet...etc. well predate Al Gore and any interest he might have had. Furthermore, The earliest ideas of a computer network intended to allow general communication between users of various computers were formulated by J.C.R. Licklider of Bolt, Beranek and Newman (BBN) in August 1962, in a series of memos discussing his "Galactic Network" concept. These ideas contained almost everything that the Internet is today.

In October 1963, Licklider was appointed head of the Behavioral Sciences and Command and Control programs at ARPA (as it was then called), the United States Department of Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency. He then convinced Ivan Sutherland and Bob Taylor that this was a very important concept, although he left ARPA before any actual work on his vision was performed.

ARPA and Taylor continued to be interested in creating a computer communication network, in part to allow ARPA-sponsored researchers in various locations to use various computers which ARPA was providing, and in part to quickly make new software and other results widely available. Taylor had three different terminals in his office, connected to three different computers which DARPA was funding: one for the SDC Q-32 in Santa Monica, one for Project Genie at the University of California, Berkeley, and one for Multics at MIT.

Roughly contemporaneously, a number of people had (mostly independently) worked out various aspects of what later became known as "packet switching"; the people who created the ARPANET would eventually draw on all these different sources.

Having read through a great deal of research on this subject, coupled with the knowledge I had, I can ascertain no link between Al Gore and the impetus to create an internet. Whether it be the formation of the "World Wide Web", or it's predecessors (what we would now call intranets) used to link logistic and maintenance data bases by the DOD...an example of which would be the Core Automated Maintenance System (CAMS).

So, if you would, please elaborate on how they "disagree" with me.

I'm amused that you have spent so much time on such an elaborate strawman, but I prefer to let Cerf and Kahn speak for themselves.

Al Gore and the Internet

By Robert Kahn and Vinton Cerf

Al Gore was the first political leader to recognize the importance of the Internet and to promote and support its development.

No one person or even small group of persons exclusively "invented" the Internet. It is the result of many years of ongoing collaboration among people in government and the university community. But as the two people who designed the basic architecture and the core protocols that make the Internet work, we would like to acknowledge VP Gore's contributions as a Congressman, Senator and as Vice President. No other elected official, to our knowledge, has made a greater contribution over a longer period of time.

Last year the Vice President made a straightforward statement on his role. He said: "During my service in the United States Congress I took the initiative in creating the Internet." We don't think, as some people have argued, that Gore intended to claim he "invented" the Internet. Moreover, there is no question in our minds that while serving as Senator, Gore's initiatives had a significant and beneficial effect on the still-evolving Internet. The fact of the matter is that Gore was talking about and promoting the Internet long before most people were listening. We feel it is timely to offer our perspective.

As far back as the 1970s Congressman Gore promoted the idea of high speed telecommunications as an engine for both economic growth and the improvement of our educational system. He was the first elected official to grasp the potential of computer communications to have a broader impact than just improving the conduct of science and scholarship. Though easily forgotten, now, at the time this was an unproven and controversial concept. Our work on the Internet started in 1973 and was based on even earlier work that took place in the mid-late 1960s. But the Internet, as we know it today, was not deployed until 1983. When the Internet was still in the early stages of its deployment, Congressman Gore provided intellectual leadership by helping create the vision of the potential benefits of high speed computing and communication. As an example, he sponsored hearings on how advanced technologies might be put to use in areas like coordinating the response of government agencies to natural disasters and other crises.

As a Senator in the 1980s Gore urged government agencies to consolidate what at the time were several dozen different and unconnected networks into an "Interagency Network." Working in a bi-partisan manner with officials in Ronald Reagan and George Bush's administrations, Gore secured the passage of the High Performance Computing and Communications Act in 1991. This "Gore Act" supported the National Research and Education Network (NREN) initiative that became one of the major vehicles for the spread of the Internet beyond the field of computer science.

As Vice President Gore promoted building the Internet both up and out, as well as releasing the Internet from the control of the government agencies that spawned it. He served as the major administration proponent for continued investment in advanced computing and networking and private sector initiatives such as Net Day. He was and is a strong proponent of extending access to the network to schools and libraries. Today, approximately 95% of our nation's schools are on the Internet. Gore provided much-needed political support for the speedy privatization of the Internet when the time arrived for it to become a commercially-driven operation.

There are many factors that have contributed to the Internet's rapid growth since the later 1980s, not the least of which has been political support for its privatization and continued support for research in advanced networking technology. No one in public life has been more intellectually engaged in helping to create the climate for a thriving Internet than the Vice President. Gore has been a clear champion of this effort, both in the councils of government and with the public at large.

The Vice President deserves credit for his early recognition of high speed computing and communication and for his long-term and consistent articulation of the potential value of the Internet to American citizens and industry and, indeed, to the rest of the world.

First of all, your quote there doesn't contradict anything. Kahn and Cerf are very careful not to state that Gore did anything with the "internet" even in this passage (which you omitted from your post by-the way), "Working in a bi-partisan manner with officials in Ronald Reagan and George Bush's administrations, Gore secured the passage of the High Performance Computing and Communications Act in 1991. Throughout the article (written in support of Gore during the 2000 election), the authors repeat the phrases "high speed computing and telecommunications" when referring to Gore's support of same. Which is a VERY vague phrase (and intentionally so I'm sure). Further, as anyone with the interest can quickly determine, work on the principal began as a DOD project in the early 60s. Because it was a defense initiative, Gore couldn't possibly be "the first political leader to recognize the importance of the Internet and to promote and support its development". I will; however, give Gore the credit he is due as noted as follows:

Gore was highly influenced by the 1988 report Toward a National Research Network submitted to Congress by a group chaired by UCLA professor of computer science, Leonard Kleinrock, one of the central creators of the ARPANET. After hearing this report, Gore introduced legislation during the late 1980s known informally as the Gore Bill. It was passed, however, as the High Performance Computing Act of 1991 on Dec. 9, 1991 and led to the NII or National Information Infrastructure which Gore referred to as the Information superhighway.

As a side note, the first line of your quote actually reads as follows: "[A]s the two people who designed the basic architecture and the core protocols that make the Internet work, we would like to acknowledge VP Gore's contributions as a Congressman, Senator and as Vice President. No other elected official, to our knowledge, has made a greater contribution over a longer period of time."

Gore wasn't an elected official of ANY type until 1976, and would have been 14 or 15 years old when the groundwork for what would become the internet was being laid.

Also, though I give Kahn and Cerf all the credit in the world, they are taking some very large liberties as they worked for Leonard Kleinrock, who infact is the principal pioneer of what we call "the internet" under DARPA funding and oversight....the first node of HIS public internet launced in 1969. While Gore was still in College.

You are too stupid to get it. No sweat off my back.

Here's another brick for your wall...

Report: Iraq war hurts terror fight
September 25. 2006 8:00AM

"the war in Iraq has only worsened the U.S. effort to defeat global terrorism, and the longer it continues the more likely it is that it will provide fresh training grounds for future terrorist plots, U.S. intelligence analysts have concluded.

A 30-page National Intelligence Estimate completed in April cites the "centrality" of the U.S. invasion of Iraq, and the insurgency that has followed, as the leading inspiration and recruitment vehicle for new Islamic extremist networks and cells that are united by little more than an anti-Western agenda. The Iraq war is motivating a new generation of potential terrorists around the world whose numbers are increasing faster than the United States and its allies are eliminating the threat, the report says.

The highly classified report, delivered to policymakers in April, is the first of its kind since the start of the Iraq war in March 2003."

http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060925/REPOSITORY/609250371/1013/48HOURS
'
Django calls me a 'hippie' for saying this kind of stuff ... and Cheney says such talk only supports the terrorists. What total Bullshit!

Nono, LOL Let me speak for Django.

I R GOING TO KILL YOU FOR SEDITION AGINST TEH USA!

EVYONE NOT EZACTLY LIKE ME R TEH ENEMY!

GLOWSTIX READY?... CHEK! PROPARE TO ASSFUX!

jihad SUV commercial says they seat 12 jihadists comfortably.
free fatoia Fridays; get free swords for the kids at your local SUV dealer.

PETA backing cockroaches now.

PETA harms their own efforts. It's a complex and convoluted pyschological knot of self sabotage.

Typical phayyde...no response...go to personal attack. at least you're consistant. I post facts, you post opinion. And, I'm guessing you must be what an engineer, scientist of some sort...I mean...just an average joe wouldn't be so arrogant as to call someone WITH an EE degree...who has actually designed wireless applications, and who is in the process of working on a Masters lvl nursing degree (Anesthetist)...stupid. No, and average work-a-day joe wouln't be that silly....so you MUST be somethin' special right...lol

Mel Gibson drew parallels between the collapsing Mayan civilization depicted in his new movie and the current situation in the United States.

"What's human sacrifice if not sending guys off to Iraq for no reason?" he said.

Survey says?

Django, you're hotheaded, bud, and you can't seem to address the topic. I am not going to dignify your strawman. My time is more important than your confusion.

And as for personal attacks, heh, I'll just let your scatterbrained hypocrisy speak for itself.

The fact is that I shut ya down bro. And you can't bring yourself to admit it. You can sit down now because when you start bragging about being kicked out of the wireless industry to be a nurse, face it - ya outta ammo. LOL

Psi, no, I don't argue against the report at all. Nor, do I feel that it is seditious to make the report. What you and especially phay-tard have never come to grips with is that I don't care what your opinions are, but I expect you to back them up with fact. I see a difference between taking an analytical approach to a problem (in this case Iraq and the GWOT), and just saying that the President is a dumbass because he's not doing what you would have. Also, it's not like recent history hasn't shown that intelligence reports are not infallible. But, of course you guys pick and choose which reports you site according to which bolsters your opinion.

I have always stated openly that I have my problems with Bush, but in the absents of solid contradictory evidence, I side with the President. And, right now as there are just as many highly intelligent, QUALIFIED individuals that agree with what we are doing - if not more - I will support the President because I know he has to make more difficult decisions in a fucking day than any one of us will in our fucking lifetimes, I will our troops that are actually on the ground not SAFE AT HOME BITCHING about the war, and hope for the fucking best. Now I hope that clears my position up for you, as in 2 years you haven't gotten it right yet.

You couldn't shutdown you fucking PC phayyde. And, in this case you can't even accurately cut and paste the article you thought would prove your point. Next time you try something like that, you might want to make sure that it's actually an accurate version of the shit you snarf.

Everything I posted can be verified in 5 minutes.......so go fuck yourself.

Fuck Mel Gibson. I'd like to kick his bitch ass back to the stone age.

What's he done now?

So, Usama has reportedly died of typhoid fever? Poor fuck...just the vaccine put me on my ass.....if it's true, couldn't have happened to a nicer guy.

Django, thanks for the laughs.

I lured you in, you bit, I yanked and now you're on my wall, singing to us in a croaky voice whenever I push ya button. LOL

Yeah, your a puppet master alright...whatever ...ya git.

LOL Just kiddin bro.

You at UMC? I was on campus just last week.

i'm watching a certain team from a certain city play in a certain refugee shelter...

GEAUX SAINTS!

Eaux man, I caught them at Memeauxrial Stadium last month when they were in Jacktown. Fun game. So many archetypal Saints meauxments. LOL

why is chaosnow time 6 mins off MStime?

uhh...
8 mins?

Hmm... must be quantum temporal drift in the scalar timeclock McMechanism.

Man, what a game. I was flabbergasted. First, the blocked kick for a TD and then the double reverse! It seemed as if God himself put money on the game and meant to beat the spread.

GEAUX SAINTS FEAUX SHEAUX!

fo sho!
lol
hey, i might be in Jtown THURS pm.

Excellent!

Clinton blasts FOX news on Bin Laden record

Ya, he got pissed alright...I watched it a few days ago. I think maybe he's gotten a little defensive as of late. I did think it was funny that it was one question, and Clinton went bananas, complained about Fox tricking him into the interview by making it about his philanthropy, and then not wanting to talk about it....but when Chris Wallace offered him the opportunity to discuss whatever he wanted he wouldn't shut up about his efforts to curb terrorism, and blaming everything on others from the military to right-wing congressman.... I think both Bush and Clinton should just say outright that for the past 14 years we have completely underestimated what one motivated raghead can get done...and move on.

Why does Rice think she can just make shit up and lie to the public?

Does she know that we store information on these here "internets"? Has someone yet apprised her of the fact that her blatant, malicious lies are easily discovered?

How stupid does this administration think the American people are?



This goes for the whole Bush administration, and by proxy, the entire neocon movement, and by extension, ye Grande Ole Party.

The GOP has allowed 11 men to dictate to them a new set of national principles that supercede those of Freedom, Liberty and Justice.

They can't even decide what Human Dignity means. They are the Undignified Party.

And, let's not leave out the Dems. in these little rants on character......everything you can say about Reps are just as true about Dems.

I agree. The Dems are entirely complicit in this whole mess. Though their role is really sorta different.


The GOP is Col. Klink.


The Dems are Shultz.


I'm looking to support Hogan and he's nowhere to be found.

I'm pretty sure LeBeau is the EU though.

Ronald Reagan was the last republican, JFK is the last Dem.

"Real" Rep. = Small Federal oversight of state issues. Today everything is a federal issue. Fiscal conservatism is a trademark of republican principals. And, support of the majority's right to determine social values, and morals.

"Real" Dem = Belief that the Federal government has the obligation to provide oversight of the welfare of all citizens, without regard to state's rights, the obligation of the Fed to provide "essentials" for those unable to provide for themselves, and the right of the individual to conduct themselves in any manner that doesn't conflict with the most liberal interpretation of existing laws.

Both of these sytems have up and down sides.

Today however, what WAS the Republican party has tried to adopt some of the Dem philosophy..social programs, social sensitivity, blah, blah, blah...etc.
While the democratic party has drifted MUCH farther to the left with a pay the tab for everyone, do whatever the hell you want (as long as there is a loophole), everyone needs a lawyer attitude. Thie last is primarily due to the fact that the BAR association and the various attorney groups are the single largest supporters of the Dem party.

Dems balanced the budget under Bush. Pay the tab? Even if we did, we afforded it and came out ahead.

Reps now believe "deficits don't matter". That is going to hurt us all.

My infantry nephew lost a close buddy in Anbar this week. My blood boils.

There...that's better!